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[pastorscott45133]

 You see that is the flaw in thinking in predestination. God knows we will sin and has made a way out of the penalties that come with it. God has predestined a way for us to escape death and has predestined a way that we will learn of Jesus (the escape) through the word.

I still hold on to the scripture between Adam and Eve and Satan.

Genesis 3:5
 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
 
What suprises me is that Satan told the truth. He said that we would have the knowledge of God. We will know both good and evil. Knowing the difference between good and evil dont we also have the power to choose? Having knowledge of God is also having power of God? Now if this suprises you look at what God said about Adam and Eve when he banished them out of the Garden.

Genesis 3:22
 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 God said that we "man" has become one of us "Gods." What does this mean? Does it mean Adam and Eve had the power to choose God? Or does it mean we are like the angels with no power or free will?

Brittany, I understand your confussion. I cannot say I have not been there. Your scripture 1 Corinthians 2:1-10 can be explained easily by reading it line by line.

1 Corinthians 2: 1-10
1 And I brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For i am determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written:
"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for
Those who love Him."
10 But god has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit fo the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

 You must realize from your roots how we have the gift of the Holy Spirit. It doesnt come until after acceptance of Jesus. Once accepting Christ a huge portion of God is opened to us through the Holy Spirit. If we are predestined to accept or deny Christ we must also realize that some will never gain the knowledge of the Holy Spirit. To deny Christ is to deny all of God including the Holy Spirit. Amen?

 Now also according to your scripture we have been baptized with the Holy Spirit, do we not have Christ living inside of us and his knowledge of things to come and things past? Is that how we can preach the mysteries of the Gospel and prophecy? Through the Holy Spirit?

This scripture has nothing to do wether or not God knows whose coming or Going.

Romans 8:28
28 And we know all things work together for good to those who love God, th those who are the called according to His purpose.

My question is when does the calling take place? Upon your first birth or the second?

Romans 6:4
 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.  For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:  Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.  For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

 The answer is the second. The first birth is to be birthed unto the world. When you was born into this world it was by your mother and fathers promiscuity. You was born under your fathers and mothers blood. Your second birth comes after repentance and belief in Christ. In which you died to the sinful image of this world and born in the perfect image of Christ. To die in Christ is up to you. As you are in the world God cannot and will not hinder your choice one way or the other. Why? You are not his.

 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, the He might b ethe first-born among many brethren.

 Once you accepted Christ because of your commitment to him. You are predestined to be conformed into his perfect image. Why? because you promised to. Also because of your commitment you have promised to preach the word and through your teaching (guided by the Holy Spirit) Christ becomes the first fruit of your being or(first born).

 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 Once you have accepted Christ you are predestined to be conformed to his image. Those he predestined he also called, justified, and glorified.

 Giving you an explaination once you have accepted him you are predestined to be conformed to his perfect image. Acceptance means you are also commited to his calling and you are justified and glorified by doing it! This means you are ordained by God to be Christ like and be called to service. Again it does not in anyway that some are predestined to go to heaven or hell.

 When you make a promise to anyone you are predestined to do as you promised. I have took the time to explain word for word and I have given many scriptures to back it up. Where do you stand?

 The predestination talked about in Romans 8:28-30 is after acceptance of Christ.

 Matthew 19:20-22 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.  But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Did not the rich man have a choice in the matter?

Matthew 26:34-35
 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.  Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

 Peter had already commited his life to God. Already been baptized unto Christ's death (though Christ had not died yet). He was born again. As I said before predestination begins on the second birth. His commitment was heartfelt and he was willing to die for Jesus.
 Now when he did deny Christ does it mean that Christ ordained him to sin by denying him??? It means that God knew his weekness and the perilous times ahead Peter would have to make the decision to deny him or die. Peter's decision however was justified. Later Christ did not through that into his face but made him the rock that the church was built on.

Matthew 16:18-19
 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.  And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I hope I explained this so you can understand.

Love,

Pastor Scott
 

[Sparrow2z]

[pastorscott45133]

  Lightning bolts has not hit me on the head and it is not the only time we being God's people has been called Gods.

 I pasted the scripture straight from the King James Version. Under hebrew text it is translated exactly correct.

 Do we not have the power to give and destroy life? Make our own decisons? think Godly? And once saved have our master living inside of us to guide us to be like him?

Genesis 3:5 KJV
 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 KJV
 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 3:5 NIV
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 NIV
 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

There is a small difference in translations between the two. Yes if emphasize the "like" in the NIV you could come to the conclusion but i dont see qoutations around "like".

 Stressing one word in a sentence could change the meaning, But in this case it doesnt.

John 10:33+34 KJV
 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

1 Corinthians 8:5+6 KJV
 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 We are gods under one GOD. Our master Jesus Christ.

 This is how we are different than angels. He makes the angels serve him. We are given a choice.

 You have though mistaken me. I have not said God doesnt know the outcome of the world. He knows those in sin will die. Those in him will live. That is what revelations says. It also says Only God knows when he will return. The path is marked out, this is the begining, and this is the end, where you walk in between is up to you. You have that power. No where does it say there is for-knowledge of your commitment. That is left up to you.

 

[Jimmy]

 Heres something I came up with a while ago on this topic, I don't know if anyone else has thought of it, but I'll post it anyway.

If god is perfect, then he has a perfect memory, he remembers all that has happened, so does he remember when he came into existance, or the beginning of time?

[FromHimByHimForHim]

 he has always been in existance. wow that hurts my head to even think of that.  

[Kirisutokyoo-Shinja]

 "as" is also an important word.

to be as gods = to be like gods

and being "one of us" refers to
our creation in the image

and host of ther things...

3:07 good grief..........

Good night.

[pastorscott45133]

  There is no stress mark or qoutation marks in this scripture on anyword in any translation. So you must read it the way it is written.

 Anyone can change the meaning by stressing words in a sentence but you have to believe it the way it is written.

 I have given you the truth the way it is written. I have backed up the arguement with scripture. I have expalined my opinion with even more scripture. Predestination is not biblical. It's not. Until I find a scripture that says in black and white that God knows that we will make the commitment to him that isnt taking out of context I will go on not believing in it. To me a fact is something that cant be proven wrong.

[disciple4him]

[disciple4him]

[pastorscott45133]

 Brittany I explained that verse on page 3.

[pastorscott45133]

 Jesus didnt have a will? Did he not pray for the cup to be passed from him?

Because Jesus Loved God and US he went with God's plan.

[disciple4him]

 Well Jesus sorta did have a will....it was God's will.  What do you mean by "Did he not pray for the cup to be passed from him?"

[pastorscott45133]

  Jesus prayed to God. He knew what he was up against. Commen scence told him that if he was captured he would be tried by the Roman and Jewish Court because he acted in love and the Jews was filled with hate. He didnt stand a chance. He knew he was about to die and a bad death by crucifiction.
 He asked God if the cup could be passed from him. If there was a way he could do his fathers will w/o dying such a terrible death he wanted God to tell him. God remained silent giving him his answer.

 Jesus Admitted that he could of called the angels and stop all that was about to happen. His love for us and God made him decide not to.


In God's LOve,
Pastor Scott

[disciple4him]

 but the thing is that Jesus WAS predestined to go to Heaven....God knew that Jesus would go to Heaven.

[Sarah Leigh]

 God is omnipresent. That means he knows what goes through your mind and through everyone elses. He knows the future, past, and present. God does know everything. So therefore, he would know what will happen to all of us because he is in control of it all. He knows the bigger picture.

Jesus may not have been omnipresent. There was no proof stating that he knew everything. Even though he was the son of God and we get into the trinity here let me just make my point short and sweet.

God could be the nucleus of an cell. The nucleus stores all the information of the cell. Jesus could be a mitochondria. The powerhouse of the cell. The mitochondria does not have all of the information but the nucleus does.

So in my point. Jesus might not have known there was no other way for him. Hence the reason he asked for the cup to be passed from him. But God knew what would happen and where Jesus would end up. So Jesus was predestined to be in heaven from the beginning.  

[pastorscott45133]

  Good point Sarah,

 Now since we are saved, and have the holy spirit in us,  doesnt that make us in the same scenerio as you stated. God knows we will Go to heaven?

 Why do some after tasted of  the grace and goodness of God recieved salvation from Jesus, and was guided by the Holy Spirit towards perfection, still chose to fall away?

Hebrews 6:4
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


In Christ's Love
Pastor Scott

[Sarah Leigh]

 I have a simple statement to put here. God made prophecises. He gave those prophecises to people like Amos, Micah and John. If he has the ability to know what will happen thousands of years from now and the exact things that will happen, why can he not know everything else too?


I will not lie to you. I do not know why some people fall away from Christ simply because I have not seen an experience like that. I can only guess that maybe God has hardened their hearts for one reason or another. It is a possibility but it is not something that I am sure about my answer on mainly because I cannot rationalize the reason why that would happen. But then, I do not know the bigger picture.

I myself do not know everything. But I trust that God has a plan for my life and he knows the outcome of it. When I get to heaven, I will hope that my questions will be answered. Including the reasons why people fall away from Christ.

[disciple4him]

 i can think of one possible reason why God has some people fall away bc maybe then in the future after they come back to him, they can use the experience as a testimony for someone who may need to hear it.  God works in mysterious ways but everything happens for a reason.

[FromHimByHimForHim]

 i totally agree with that!!!!!  :bigclap:  :yes:  :yes:  :yes:  :yes:  

[pastorscott45133]

  The bible teaches that God wants no man to fall away. If God wants someone to fall away, doesnt that mean that God wants someone to sin? Or cause someone to stumble.

 I agree when someone decides to walk away from God that they have a choice to repent and come back or be damned. Most of those time when they return they have an awesome testimony to share. Yet, to many people play tag with the throne of grace. They leave God and run back when things get rough. Then as soon as the guilt of their actions leave them they run back into sin. To me by study that is not a definition of a disciple or someone who fears God it is someone who is trying to play with God. Or a part-time Christian.

 God doesnt cause someone to stumble and fall from grace our own choices cause that.

Love in Christ,

Pastor Scott