next »

[Guest]

...loading shoutbox...

[jwarner]

[jwarner]

 oops, I forgot to add my verse:

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
 

[warner2203]

 another good verse, talking about how God will save us the same way he saved Noah - through water.

1 Peter 3:20-22
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[5] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
 

[i dunno lol]

 GOOD JOB BRIGE!!!!! I WAS GONNA PUT THAT TOO!!!!   :cry:  I'M SO PROUD!!!!

U B I C

Zach Boone

but yea,....it is in the bible that PART of the way to salvation is getting babtised.......

[Benjamin Ries]

 A friend pointed me towards this forum, and I must say that I am a bit shocked.  Most evangelical denominations do not count baptism as a requirement for salvation; this doctrine is more characteristic of certain cults (such as the International Church of Christ).

Most of the verses sighted so far are, as far as I'm concerned, being taken out of context - and interpreted with a strong hermeneutic towards the point being argued.  Quote all the verses you want - but when you're only looking to prove your viewpoint, you run the risk of abusing scripture instead of truly openning your heart to receive truth.  The truth is that when we get to heaven, we will be surprised at the people who are there, and at the people who are not.

Jesus talked of baptism by fire.  Is he going to scorch your skin?  No, I believe baptism is entirely metaphorical.  "Born of water" doesn't necessarily mean baptized in water - it could mean yo momma's water broke when you came into the world, and you were all wet (eeeewwwwwwww)!  If you must be baptized to be saved, what is stopping good old St. Peter from baptizing you just outside of heaven's gates, like last-minute and stuff?

What happens when we worry too much about establishing the salvation of others instead of ourselves?  We run the risk of being just like Jesus' disciples who started getting picky about who would sit where in heaven, etc.  Jesus told them to mind their own beeswax, and I think the sentiment still rings true today.

[Jenna]

 ya, i wasnt sure that verse fit either, i was tryna look for an other one but it was getting late -_-  and thats my fav verse so i just kinda put that in.
But another dude brought up the theif on the cross, he wasnt baptised but Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, i say to you,today you will be with Me in Paradise". That proves it is possible to be accepted into heaven with-out being baptised.
how could you now still question the topic after knowing Jesus himself accepted a theif who had not been baptised into heaven?
end of disscusion!!!  :bigclap:

[jwarner]

 That is not the end of discussion Jenna.  The Bible says that baptism represents the death. burial, and ressurection of Jesus.  How could the thief be buried and ressurected in the name of Jesus if Jesus himself had never been buried or ressurected?  At that time, as I stated earlier, the Old Testament Law was still in effect.

My wife stated it well on an early post.  Lets say baptism isn't required, but you do it anyway, just becuase we read about it. Jesus did it, and virtually every person ever converted in the New Testament is shown be baptised.  Anyway, you are baptised, then it turns out you never needed to be.  So, you got wet for no reason.

Now, lets say you don't get baptised because you don't think it is neccesary, but later you find out that it is.  Now you find yourself in a heap of trouble.

Here is the gist:  So what if I am wrong.  If it turns out that I don't need to be baptised, but I am anyway, becasue Jesus was, and I want to be like Him, what have I lost?  Nothing.  But if I am right, and I am baptised because it is required, then thank God that I wasn't so stubborn to refuse to go through with it.

What does it hurt.  At the least, you get wet.  At the most, you save your soul.  What will you choose?  Get wet, or burn?  Why take a chance?

[grace~sparrow]

 reminiscent of Pascal's wager. . . .eh, I agree w/ the sentiment even though I don't think baptism is "required". . .I don't know why you wouldn't get baptized, but it seems a touch legalistic to say you absolutely must. . .

[Jenna]

 As i said dude, im not against baptisim, i have been baptised my self.
But What about people, like William and Catherine Booth(founders of the salvation army), they were awesome people of God, they didnt get baptised, but they devoted their lives to God. God used them to make an amazing difference in this world, i dont think that once they die God is going to say to them,
"ok, well you gave your lives over to me, you loved me, you trusted me, you were faithful, you done what i  asked, you sacrificed everything for me, but sorry you cant spend eternity with me because you didnt get baptised".
Alot of the people in the salvation army have not been baptised, but been awsome people of God, i dont think that their is any way that all of those people went to hell.
it is easy to be baptised and say, "ok im saved, thats one less thing i have to think about"
Being a christian has nothing to do with being baptised, its something christians do but being baptised does not make you a christian.
So why do it? Well because its making a public statement of your committment to God, washing away your old life and starting a new one with God!
But what if God asks you or you choose to publicly confess this in a different way?
i dont think God would punish us for that!

 

[jwarner]

 Jenna,  I sincerely hope you are right!  I know a lot of great people who serve God, but have never been baptized.  I hope the "requirements" for heaven are easy to meet.  In the end, that is a decision that God has to make, not me.  All I have to go on is what is written in the Bible.  In the Great Commission, Jesus himself tells us to go into the world and make disciples, then baptize them!  Those are the words of Jesus Christ, God in human flesh.  We can argue about it all we want, but the decision is going to be His!  He has told us to baptize those who we convert to Christianity.  Why do so many people think that they have the authority to change the rules?  In my opinion, and I hope everyone elses, if Jesus Christ said to do it, and did it himself, then who am I to say otherwise?

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
 

[SpOkEn_FoR]

[Double]

 hey guys ive been away for awhile but i can see you have all been busy. Just for furture refrence could you all write what you are trying to say in a short sentence at the end of your post cause im getting tired of reading this stff cause its so super long. I love how everyone is into this but dont go getting angry or anything its a debate Christian forum so debate liek christians. As for some posts ive seen where people say others have taken verses out of context i can assure you that Romans 6 is the tru answer and its not out of context when saying it means to be baptized to recieve salvation.

Jesus came to earth as an example, we are told to live as he did...didnt he get baptized?

[Jenna]

 i dont think any one in here is saying that it is a bad idea to get baptised, i think people are just meaning that it is not nesercery (how the heck do you spell that word???) in order to be saved.

[Guest]

 but it is..

[Jenna]

 so your saying all the devoted christians of the past that have not been baptised have gone to hell?

[XxHristo☼Thanatikox]

 Well im new so i dunno if this has already been said but im gunna use a lil jamaica mission trip stuff on yea lol

    It says in 2 thessa. 1:6-10
      there will be punishment for non christians and
    Relief for christians? right?

   what does it say the two requiremts are to be a christian?
      know God
       Obey the gospel

   Well whats the Gospel?
      1corinthians 15: 1-4
     it says the gospel was preached to u  recieved and on which u stand and are also saved...


    Well how do u obey the gospel?
   what is it?

  romans 6: 1-8 says the gospel is the death burial and ressuretion of christ? so how we obey it is beleiving and obeying and by obeying u are baptised which is NESSASARY to be saved!!!!!
     baptism resemples the gospel    
 when u say i beleieve in God its resembles christ being on the cross.,
  then going under water resembles him dying and being put in the tomb cuz ur old self is barried wit him ( i forget the verse ill find it and post it later) so u become new in him and thenw hen u arise from the water its like u walking with him like when he was ressurected from the dead.

    it also says in john 3: 3 "jesus answered and said to him most assuredly i say to u unless one is born again he can NOT see the kingdom of God( born again is baptism and kingdom of god is heaven )

   well i hope this helps~! thanx! bye

[XxHristo☼Thanatikox]

 oh to the one up there who said that born again means being in the womb again all i have to say is look up the greek behind the word "born again" it is DEFINENTLY talking about baptism? cuz no one can be born again by the womb. ok thanx!!!! =D

[Double]

 So.................yes thats what im saying, a requirement is a requirement

[XxHristo☼Thanatikox]

 yea its a requirement!!

[grace~sparrow]

 1 Peter 3:20b
(speaking of the ark) . . In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge (my footnotes say "or response") of a good conscience toward God.  It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand- with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.  
I interpret this to mean that it's not so much the actual baptism, but what you do afterwards that matters.  I'm gonna go out on the limb and say you can get baptized and still not be a Christian.  It's a great thing to be baptized, and you should get baptized, but I don't personally believe that you won't get into heaven w/o the pastor laying his hands on you and putting water on your head.  I think it's more important to have a baptism of the heart and the actual ceremony, nowadays anyhow, is good for the public acceptance of Christ and committment. but then, "whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God, for the man who does not believe is condemned if he eats. ."  
Though I think that you should get baptized, and I don't see any reason why you wouldn't.  . .
hope this all made some amount of sense. . .    tell me if it didn't and i'll try again. . .