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[beforHim]

In other words, the age old question: are we as Christians allowed to be culturally relevant in order to spread God's love, aka the gospel? 

For example: the Amish try so so so so hard to stay "culturally pure".  On the other hand, the Emergent Church goes so far as to change some things (like Jesus death) and accept other (things like abortion), just in order to be "culturally relevant" so as to get more people to Church.

I wonder, where do we draw the line?  Teenagers (and youth pastors) need to figure this out, so that they know the best way to spread life, which is from God.

[RAVENOUS]

By this do you mean, "How much culture do we mirror?"

"Christianity" was counter culture since its founding. No strike that, HUGELY counter culture. The Roman culture (which is somewhat identical to the world's secular culture today) was in direct opposition to the Christian way, and Christianity viewed the secular world in the same manner. We have lots of reading material on this, but the NT letters DO instruct believers to be close to the culture, yet not breaking our rules. Much of the cultural buffet out there today is so tainted in Paganism that it is nearly impossible to take part in it without taking part in Pagan practices, which is strictly forbidden by the almighty for the believer.

Mirror what is good wherever it can be found, and be lost when it comes to finding your way in darkness.

Peace

[Mikhael]

I think it is important for Christians to develop their own ideal on this and settle somewhere comfortable for them. A very important thought trail that all of us should have.

I find it helpful not to view the bible as a rule book, or as having something to say about an issue, or not having something to say. Rather I think of it in principles. If the bible talks of issues like murder, sacrifice, killing etc., seek out the principles being conveyed in the section of text (keep in mind that some of the bible is just story telling, not instruction. Don't go being adulterous just because Solomon was), and think of how, in the situation you are considering, the same principals might be applied.

More on topic, Jesus told the deciples to be in the world, not of it. We should live in the world and relate to the world and it's issues, getting alongside non Christians or engaging in activities that they do. However, we have a set of principles, morals, and ideals that should cause us to make decisions slightly differently from most of a secular world. So in situations where circumstances would push us to something that contradicts the principles of the bible, or presses our conscience, I think we have found the line between being culturally relevant and upholding Christian truth.

Another thing I have to say on the subject is that 'obbeying the commandments' or living a 'good Christian life', does not restrict us and stop us from enjoying life. On the contrary, if protects us and enables us to have a freedom in life because of a better understanding of the world. Sinning, or doing something against biblical principle is only called wrong and forbidden by God because it either hurts or endangers us, others, or degrades relationships. A small thing you may consider inconsequencial like a simple lie causes mistrust, which causes resentment, which can cause anger, envy, pride.... it goes on. In instructing us not to do these things, God has helped us live a life more fultilling and happier and without as much hurt.

[beforHim]

Means= how to get the message across.
Message= what the means is meant to get across.

Some people avid using TV, radio, film, etc. to get across the message because these things are used for such wickedness.  But others say use it to get the message across and it's not wickedness.

Go here.  Starts at about 4:45, goes to about 9:50.  I agree with his basic principle, and he explains the entire thing well.

[redjacket]

Wasn't Jesus somewhat of a rebel in society? The only one who was considered a troublemaker but was doing all the right things? Culture is important but it is the gospel that brings people to Christ. The church should not have to entice or lure people in. The church should go out and spread the good news right? Customs are not to be mirrored. What aspects of culture will be affected by these "drawn lines?"

[RAVENOUS]

Wasn't Jesus somewhat of a rebel in society? The only one who was considered a troublemaker but was doing all the right things? Culture is important but it is the gospel that brings people to Christ. The church should not have to entice or lure people in. The church should go out and spread the good news right? Customs are not to be mirrored. What aspects of culture will be affected by these "drawn lines?"

Not really a rebel, if so he wouldn't have been listened to at all. He stayed in line with biblical law as well as the Roman law that was in force at the time and so both the temple dwellers and the temple defilers left him largely to his own devices. What he would be considered a rebel against would be traditionalist man made laws being placed before the laws of his father, which appears in key places of scripture. He walked like the Jews, talked like the Jews, but instructed like a Messiah. That last bit made the Pharisees and Sadducees want him dead. He and his people (the Jews) were the rebels if the word is to be used. In a land occupied by pagan forces, surrounded by pagan forces, the Jewish people did their best to maintain a devout society. Ultimately that was what pushed the leaders to kill Yeshua. They became so "devout" they started making rules to protect people from breaking the rules (known as "Oral Law"), and these rules started keeping people from being able to follow the rules period.

I agree that it is the Gospel that brings people to Christ. Paul wasn't known to be a great orator historically but he said he didn't come with cheap philosophy - he came with the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the saddest experiences of my life was going to a local church's youth meeting where the pastoral staff was passing out Monster energy drinks to new people for free. Already I had been in various psychology courses at college and recognised what they were doing immediately. For those who seek to be youth pastors or oversee youths, it is unacceptable to give young people chemicals which alter their mental state in order to produce a "false fire" in their hearts and ensure their future attendance through addiction to those chemicals.

If I see you doing it, I will kill you. Period.

Peace

[andy0923]

I think the most important thing to remember is that God has already given us a means by which to promote the gospel, the preaching of the word of God, and I think it would be rather foolish to think that man’s means could somehow be more effective than that.

2 Timothy 4:2   Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

[beforHim]

I think the most important thing to remember is that God has already given us a means by which to promote the gospel, the preaching of the word of God, and I think it would be rather foolish to think that man’s means could somehow be more effective than that.

2 Timothy 4:2   Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

So how does this play out in everyday situations, say between gym class and History, or at the mall, or while at your friends house?  That's the question.  We know what to do, but how do we do it?

[silmarwen]

i think using 'human means' like TV, radio, films, or even the net is not bad. Jesus told us to preach the gospel to everyone. we cant simply do that by just preaching, we must do ways in which we can reach people in large numbers. we can make new ways to bring the gospel to them, only we should not leave the bible as our guide.