JCYouth Christian Teen Forum Welcome to JCYouth!   
Join the World's   
Best Teen Forum   
|   
July 30, 2010, 02:21:40 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Shout Box

...loading shoutbox...












Login with username, password and session length
News: Signup is Free, Quick and Easy!
 
   Home   Arcade Store Help Search Calendar Login Register  
JC Youth - Christian Teen Forum > Christian Discussions & Debates > Open Religion Debate (Moderator: RAVENOUS> Only Love
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Only Love  (Read 673 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

***

Hugs: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 118
Username: dattaswami

215.00clams

View Inventory
Send Money to dattaswami

View Profile
« on: January 25, 2010, 07:39:36 PM »

Only Love

When you cut all your bonds of love on all the things and on all the people in this world, it is called ‘Vairaagyam’. But this stage is not sufficient. The reason for this stage should be the love formed on the Lord. Due to this new bond on the Lord, all the old bonds must be cut. If the new bond does not exist and simply the old bonds are cut, that is only salvation. A stone is also having salvation because it does not have any bond on any thing or any body in this world.

If one leaves the family and the house by taking Sanyasa, all that is a waste, if he has not taken the Sanyasa for the sake of the Lord. The new bond with the Lord (Bhakthi) should be the reason for the detachment from all the other bonds (Vairaagyam). Only Vairaagyam is useless without Bhakthi. If Bhakthi is achieved, Variraagyam is automatic. There is no need of any effort for attaining the Vairaagyam. If you have tasted the divine nectar (Amrutham), you will automatically discard the other drinks. Without tasting the divine nectar, you cannot leave the drinks. Even if you leave the drinks without tasting the divine nectar, you will go to the drinks after some time with very high vigor. Therefore Vairaagyam without Bhakthi is not only waste but is also impossible. Just see this example. A young man loved a girl for the past one month. The parents are not agreeing for the marriage. But the young man cuts all his bonds, which were developed, with his parents for the past twenty-five years due to this one-month-old new bond! The million births old bonds are cut by a single new bond developed with the Lord in human form in this birth.

Swami Vivekananda could cut all the family bonds for the sake of the divine work of His Satguru (Rama Krishan Paramahamsa). Similarly Gopikas could cut all the family bonds for the sake of the Lord in human form (Krishna). A small atom bomb can destroy huge mountains. Narada wrote that one should love the Lord as a lover loves his or her darling (Jaara Vatcha). He also gave the example of Gopikas in the next Sutra (Yathaa Vraja Gopikanaam). Such love involves the practical sacrifice. The lover is leaving his or her parents practically to go along with his or her darling. Even if the parents threaten stating that they will not give the property if he/she marries his/her lover, the boy or the girl is prepared to leave all the property for the sake of his or her lover. When the parents manage to kill him or her, she or he is committing suicide. Therefore for the sake of the lover one can cut all the family bonds, bond with wealth and money and even the bond with the life. When you can do these things in the case of the lover, how can I believe that they are impossible things in the case of the Lord?

This means that you don’t have that much real love on the Lord. Holy Jesus told that one should cut the bond even with his life for the sake of the Lord. If something is impossible, that should be impossible every where. The new love is called ‘Saayujyam’ and ‘Kaivalyam’. Saayujyam means becoming close to the Lord. Kaivalyam means becoming one with the Lord. Kaivalyam does not mean merging in the Lord physically. Whatever the devotee says, the Lord will say the same. Whatever the devotee wishes the Lord wishes the same. This is vice-versa also. Such oneness is called Kaivalyam.

Logged

***

Hugs: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 472
Username: shoe

19.00clams

View Inventory
Send Money to Mikhael


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 02:29:54 PM »

Hi dattaswami

My solely western thinking might let me down here but I find your points a little against biblical teaching.

"When you cut all your bonds of love on all the things and on all the people in this world, it is called ‘Vairaagyam’. But this stage is not sufficient"
On the contrary, and without researching at all any translation of Vairaagyam, I am inclined to say it is not insufficient, but over the top. Christ, in showing us the fullfillment of life according to the Tora and holy scriptures of our Old Testament, said love your neighbour as yourself. In Genesis the Hebrew would suggest Shalom peace with one another, and with the world is essential to living the accordance with the plans of God the Father. So to sever connections and deliberately not love people is to go against the will of God, and would not be a healthy move as a follow of the Christian faith.

It could be that by Bonds of Love, you mean idol worship or slavery to. If this is the case, then yes, the focus of your life should be first and foremost on God and second to the love and service of others. If this is not the case because of something you put before God, maybe you need to re-assess and maybe even remove some things from your life in order to put right your priorities before you can serve God most effectively.

Smiley
Logged

***

Hugs: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 118
Username: dattaswami

215.00clams

View Inventory
Send Money to dattaswami

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 09:28:47 PM »

Hi dattaswami

My solely western thinking might let me down here but I find your points a little against biblical teaching.

"When you cut all your bonds of love on all the things and on all the people in this world, it is called ‘Vairaagyam’. But this stage is not sufficient"
On the contrary, and without researching at all any translation of Vairaagyam, I am inclined to say it is not insufficient, but over the top. Christ, in showing us the fullfillment of life according to the Tora and holy scriptures of our Old Testament, said love your neighbour as yourself. In Genesis the Hebrew would suggest Shalom peace with one another, and with the world is essential to living the accordance with the plans of God the Father. So to sever connections and deliberately not love people is to go against the will of God, and would not be a healthy move as a follow of the Christian faith.

It could be that by Bonds of Love, you mean idol worship or slavery to. If this is the case, then yes, the focus of your life should be first and foremost on God and second to the love and service of others. If this is not the case because of something you put before God, maybe you need to re-assess and maybe even remove some things from your life in order to put right your priorities before you can serve God most effectively.

Smiley

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.

The knowledge is compared to a sword. Bhagavatgita says “Chhitva Jnanasinatmanah”. This means that the ignorance should be cut by the knowledge, which is like a sword. The bonds with wife or husband and children are due to ignorance. Such bonds should break when the Lord in human form competes with them to conduct His test. Lord comes in human form in every human generation to preach and give His direct presence. If the Lord comes in only one human generation, God becomes partial to that human generation because other human generations are not blessed with such opportunity. To see, to touch, to talk and to live with the human incarnation, He comes down as per the prayers of the devotees. The Lord comes to preach and so He will not enter the statues or animals or birds. Veda says “Na tasya pratima asti’’ which means that God will not enter the inert statues.

Gita says “Manusheem tanu masritam” which means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose is to preach the human beings. Gita strongly says that he who worships the inert statues will be born as an inert stone (“Bhootani yanti”). The Christians should be commended on this point who are worshipping the Holy Jesus only, who is the most powerful human incarnation of God. Veda says “Na tat samah” which means that nobody and nothing should be equal to the Lord in human incarnation. One should leave everything and everybody for the sake of the Lord in human form. Only the bond with a new human being can break the bond with the human beings. Such new human being must be very powerful who can be only God in human form.

A new bond existing with formless God or statues cannot break the human bonds. Only the bond with another living being can cut the bond with the living beings. The bond with formless God is impossible. The bond with inert statue has no use. The above statements of Holy Jesus indicate that one should cut the bonds with his family and with the wealth. In Hindu religion also it is said that God (Datta) cuts all the bonds of family and wealth (“Dattam Chinnam”). Even the bond with the body should be cut for the sake of the God. Gita says the same thing as “Mat Gata Pranah”. Holy Jesus says that one has to carry his own cross (death) for the sake of the Lord. This means that one has to invite his own death with his own hands for the sake of God. Holy Jesus did like this as an ideal example for others. This means that you have to cut your bonds not only with your family and wealth but also with your life if necessary.

Hanuman, a top devotee, tore his heart with his own nails for the sake of the Lord and was blessed by the Lord to be immortal. So when the devotee sacrifices his life, his life gets protected forever. The essence of this gospel is that the love is proved only by the practical sacrifice. Veda says “Dhanena Tyage nyke…” which means that sacrifice of money proves the real love.

Money is the fruit of the work. So money is another form of work. If it is inconvenient to sacrifice the money, atleast they should sacrifice the other form of money, which is work for the sake of God. Depending on the money all the family members are attached to you. If money is not there all the family will leave you. You are also giving the money to your family only. Therefore if the bond with money is cut and if the money is sacrificed to God, the family bonds are considered as vanished, even though the family exists externally. The work of God in human form is the propagation of His divine gospel. For doing such divine work the family also stands as an obstacle because most of your energy is diverted for the family only. Therefore you do not have any energy to work for the sake of Lord.

Hence Holy Jesus wants His disciples to leave their families for the sake of God. The propagation work needs both money and work. Generally every body works to maintain his family. In the name of maintenance, several luxuries are introduced, which look like essential needs and thus there is no end for your work to earn the money for the sake of your body and your family. Your blindness increases and you will be putting more and more efforts to work and earn money for the sake of the family bonds. In such a case you can never even see the human form of God. At least you should remove your blindness by the divine knowledge if not the actual bonds. People of very high devotion only can cut the actual bonds. You are giving money to your family but you are giving words to God by prayers and you are giving mind to God through meditation.

You are giving love to your family through your work and money, you are calling the sacrifice of words and sacrifice of mind as love to God and you are fooling the God. Your real love is only with your family and not with the God. Holy Jesus tests your real love to God by these statements. The Christian Pope and fathers and the Hindu Acharya and saints left their families and concentrated completely on the work of God. Such pious souls can only be representatives of God in this world.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.7 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!