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[RAVENOUS]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 (Greek Text)

The trouble with the Greek translation of John 1:1 is that it is, admittidly sorta open ended (but not too much though). The last part in the greek "and the word was God" could mean God himself, a form of diety, or a few other things as argued by some. Some sects go as far as to assert their own doctrine into the translation, such as this example from the Jehovah's Witness bible:

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
John 1:1 (NWT)

Yet thankfully, we have the original Aramaic which the Greek was translated from:

In the beginning (B'Raysheet) was the Miltha, and that Miltha was with God, and God was that Miltha.
John 1:1 (Aramaic Text)

It's important to note that the Aramaic uses "B'Raysheet" which John as introducing the idea in parallel with Genesis 1:1, "B'Raysheet" here means "BEFORE the beginning", "THE ORIGIN ITSELF", even before time/space/matter came to be. This is the same manner in which Beresheet 1:1 (Genesis 1:1) uses "Beresheet". But as important is the world "Miltha" here. It's such a complex thing to translate into english (because we have no direct equivilent), that most translators cringe when having to place a near equivilant. The world Miltha does not only mean "the Word" but also "The essense", "The Substance", "the Manifestation", "the Instance", "the fullness", etc. There's quite a few words which form this idea. But what a nifty thing to do, is to examine this verse with the variants...

In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Word, and that Word was with God, and God was that Word.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Essence, and that Essence was with God, and God was that Essence.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Substance, and that Substance was with God, and God was that Substance.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Manifestation, and that Manifestation was with God, and God was that Manifestation.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Instance, and that Instance was with God, and God was that Instance.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Fullness, and that Fullness was with God, and God was that Fullness.

It's amazing, but no matter how you cut the Aramaic John 1:1, it still declares that whatever existed before all things, and existed with God... that very same thing was God Himself.

Shalom

[Shinjite]

Interesting. I like it. (Yes, i approve of God's wording, lol... ok shutting up now)

What do you think about it when they say "The Word" is supposed to be Jesus?

[Shansu-San]

What do you think about it when they say "The Word" is supposed to be Jesus?

If you go down to verse 14 in chapter 1 you'll see:

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
New King James

14 So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.
Amplified

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth
NIV

Yeah....the Word is Jesus. 

[RAVENOUS]

Interesting. I like it. (Yes, i approve of God's wording, lol... ok shutting up now)

What do you think about it when they say "The Word" is supposed to be Jesus?

Many on the Eastern side of Christianity view Yashua as the living, breathing, "Torah" of God. The Torah as seen as "the word of God" would fit perfectly with this statement of "the Word".

If you go down to verse 14 in chapter 1 you'll see

Glad you mentioned this Shan. There are those in some part of Christianity (as they claim to be) who believe Yashua was created at a certain point of time. Since he was created, he therefore cannot be pre-existant (another argument to challenge the deity of Yashua). Yet John 1:14 in both Greek and Aramaic are sooooo nifty...

And the Word became flesh and tabernacled [gr. skenoo] among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth.
John 1:14 (Greek)

The Greek alone declares that Yashua made his "tabernacle" among us. To "tabernacle" [gr. skenoo] is to encamp, to pitch one's tent, to build one's abode and dwell in it etc. The point is, that the Greek shows a pre-existant Yashua encamping in human flesh, and dwelling among us. (Existing before encamping in a body)

And the: Word became flesh, and tabernacled with us: and we saw his glory, a glory as of the only begotten from the Father, that he was full of grace and truth.
John 1:14 (Aramaic)

Looks about the same right? Well the word for "Tabernacled" here also means "descend upon, rest, dwell", all which point to a pre-existing "word" or "Messiah". (as he descends upon the earth from heaven, resting in a body, and dwelling among us)

What do you think of "the Word"?

Shalom!

[Shansu-San]

Yes, I thought I remembered a translation that used the word "tabernacled", and it was the Youngs....

14And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.


Referring back to Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The US we are speaking of IS God AND Jesus (the Word) that's why in John it speaks of Him in John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[Shinjite]

Considering that God has always existed, and God is the Trinity - The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... so all Three of Him have always existed. Before, durring, and after time.

[Shabdah]

In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Word, and that Word was with God, and God was that Word.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Essence, and that Essence was with God, and God was that Essence.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Substance, and that Substance was with God, and God was that Substance.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Manifestation, and that Manifestation was with God, and God was that Manifestation.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Instance, and that Instance was with God, and God was that Instance.
In the beginning (before anything came into existance) was the Fullness, and that Fullness was with God, and God was that Fullness.

It's amazing, but no matter how you cut the Aramaic John 1:1, it still declares that whatever existed before all things, and existed with God... that very same thing was God Himself.

Shalom

... Indeed, and remains so, even NOW.

Mark 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord

... God is not divided - Man IS. God IS ONE - not 2, or 3, or 7 ... ONE!!!

What do you think of "the Word"?

John 8:28

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:42

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 12:49 

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:10 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

... Thus:

John 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, are spirit, and are life.

... Gee I dunno - Looks pretty well spelled-out - WHERE and WHAT "The WORD" came from, and is.

John 14:21

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will .manifest myself to him

... WOW!!! I wonder why soooo many who 'claim' to be "Christians" don't know WHERE Christ IS!

Don't have HIM "manifested" TO THEM personally, and individually, as a LIVING TRUTH, but think He is somewhere-else!

Ohhhhh - hang-on; could be stuff like THIS:

Considering that God has always existed, and God is the Trinity - The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... so all Three of Him have always existed. Before, durring, and after time.

... Please direct me to where JESUS, The Annointed ... The Messiah ... The Son of God ... The CHRIST declares this.

NOT someone else.

... IF you profess to "follow HIM" - and have believed this - then you have been deceived.

IF you teach it - then your 'reward' will likely be:

Matthew 7:23

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

... Again - pretty well spelled-out.

best.

p.s. "The WORD became flesh" - is a very OLD Hebrew 'maxim' - e.g. The Torah is written in the Hearts of those who are 'chosen' of God. Who LOVE God more than they love anything, and everything-else. It is there-fore manifested, through them. This is commonly 'attributed', from birth. They "know" God. They know 'HIS' voice.

This is even eluded to, regarding the 'disciples' - "He chose us - from the beginning" (before they were 'born' in the flesh). Even current day 'Israelites' (not to be confused with the secular 'Nationalist' Israelies), know:

"HaShem, calls to those who are HIS".

O man, The SPIRIT of TRUTH is with you, or you are still lost and/or believe you have found it - else-where.

Yet, IF you are TRUELY seeking "The Truth" - (and not being led by the status-qua 'mimics') - IT will find you, as (in fact) it is guiding you towards itself, by greater and greater degrees of 'realization'. As 'promised'.

Pretty basic.

[Shansu-San]

John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Thank God that Jesus listened to and OBEYED the Father.

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Thank God that HE made provision FOR US.

John 12:49 
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Thank God that Jesus was OBEDIENT, and chose to be led by God's Spirit.

John 14:10 
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

God HELP us to yeild to YOU as Jesus always did.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will .manifest myself to him

Thank YOU LORD that You keep us and love us and that you truly do manifest Yourself to us all.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'  
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'  
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

HALLELUJAH!!!!


John chapter 17
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You and they have believed that You sent Me.;
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep  through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

[Shabdah]

John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Thank God that Jesus listened to and OBEYED the Father.

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Thank God that HE made provision FOR US.

John 12:49 
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Thank God that Jesus was OBEDIENT, and chose to be led by God's Spirit.

John 14:10 
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

God HELP us to yeild to YOU as Jesus always did.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will .manifest myself to him

Thank YOU LORD that You keep us and love us and that you truly do manifest Yourself to us all.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'  
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'  
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

HALLELUJAH!!!!


John chapter 17
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You and they have believed that You sent Me.;
9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep  through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it,

that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

... Precisely!!!

And when those who are 'of' the "body of believers" (whether individually, or collectively) finally really 'get IT' - That 'they' ARE ONE with Christ - ONE with God - ONE - NOT SEPERATE;

Then those (so aware) will KNOW where Christ IS, and not be deceived by anyone (or any-thing) posing as Him - or by those who proclaim "He is over here" - because they will understand what "the second coming" is actually about.

If you truely have "The King" - you have (and are OF) The Kingdom, as well.

... That is 'the best' - "good news" - of which I am aware. Nor am I alone in this awareness.

Knowing how much you enjoy the stuff I wrote as a kid - here's a couple more:

(a "need of the hour")

ABBA

DELIVER US THIS HOUR

BY YOUR LIVING TRUTH

FROM THE TEMPTATION TO APPEAL TO THE VAIN THROUGH MIMICRY

LEST WE IN ANY WAY FACILITATE DECEPTION

AND LOSE OUR CROWN

AS A CONSEQUENCE OF FAITH INVESTED IN THE FAMILIAR.

RATHER, LET US ANOINT OURSELVES WITH SUBMISSION TO THE PRESENCE OF YOUR LOVE

THAT WE MAY BE FOUND WORTHY TO PARTAKE AT YOUR TABLE

AND THUS BE SUSTAINED

TO FULFILL THAT FOR WHICH YOU HAVE PURPOSED US.

even so....

... and a more 'general audience' one;

O man

There are but two steps taken

which lead to the 'path straight and narrow',

and but two who ascend them.

Those who "seek first - the Kingdom of Heaven, and IT's righteousness",

and those who seek repentence, because they didn't.

Many there are who will argue with this.

Yet for them, was the second step - neccessitated.

even so...